A recorded discussion concerning Jeffery Dahmer, Christopher Scarver,
and cannibalism

Dana Duer - an artist in the Little City art studio; Palatine, Illinois
Marc Fischer - a studio art facilitator at Little City
Sandra - an assistant in the studio at Little City
John King - another artist at Little City who was listening in on the discussion

Dana: Jeffery Dahmer killed all those men and boys, you know? He ate the humans for a snack, you know? (laughing). He got the life sentence - he had life in prison for killing people you know?

Sandra: How long had he been killing them?

Dana: Since 1995, 96.

Sandra: Did he say why he started killing?

Dana: He just did it for attention.

Sandra: Attention?

Dana: He admitted that he was killin' those boys, and Christopher Scarver killed him because of what Jeffery Dahmer did to those men and boys. You know what the Bible says Sandra? It says "Thou shall not kill", right Marc?

Marc: Yes.

Dana: And Jeffery Dahmer disobeyed God's commandments.

Marc: But there's no commandment about eating people, right? You should just simply know better.

Dana: Yeah, he knows better, right? He knows better. How do humans taste if you try to eat them Marc?

Marc: I've never tried eating a person. Have you tried eating any human meat?

Dana: No.

Marc: What do you think it tastes like - because we don't know right?

Sandra: It doesn't taste like animal meat.

Dana: No.

Sandra: You're not supposed to eat humans. Some people do it, don't they?

Dana: Yeah. Just for attention, right. Just for attention.

Sandra: Maybe they have some kind of mental problem.

Dana: Mental problem?

Sandra: Yeah. Because some people have some kind of depression or they go off the deep end and they want to eat humans.

Dana: Oh no.

Sandra: When he was growing up, didn't he get animals and dissect them?

Marc: A lot of murderers start by hurting animals.

Dana: Hurting animals?

Sandra: Yeah, they dissect them and see what their organs are.

Dana: Yeah.

Sandra: Then they move on to humans.

Dana: Yeah.

Sandra: That's how he started out.

Dana: Yeah, and then the Bible says eating human meat... the Bible says "Thou shall not kill." Is that true Sandra?

Sandra: That's right.

Dana: Jefferey Dahmer got killed by Christopher Scarver for what he did to the humans.

Marc: He was killed by another prisoner.

Dana: Yeah.

Sandra: He was on death row... (correcting herself) He didn't get death row, because you know why? Why didn't he get death row Dana?

Dana: Why? Why did he get life in prison? Because he was killin' all the people.

Sandra: No. Usually in other states you'd get the death sentence for that. But what state don't give you the death penalty? Why didn't he get the death sentence? He got life. What state was that?

Dana: That was Wisconsin.

Sandra: That's right. They don't have no death sentence.

Dana: Wisconsin they had life imprisonment.

Sandra: Right. Exactly.

Dana: And then the inmate Christopher Scarver killed him because he said that God told him to kill Jeffery Dahmer for what he did to the humans.

Sandra: Oh really? He said that?

Dana: Yeah. Because he said the Bible said you should not kill humans by eating them. "Thou shall not kill".

Marc: It specifically says not to eat them?

Dana: Christopher Scarver got mad and killed Jeffery Dahmer.

Sandra: 'Cause he ate them?

Dana: Yeah.

Marc: Do you think maybe he just wanted attention also?

Dana: He wanted attention but I don't know if it worked. What do you think Sandra?

Sandra: Well, it didn't work for me, because I never heard of him... until now. I never knew who killed Jeffery Dahmer. What happened to him after he killed Jeffery Dahmer?

Dana: Christopher Scarver? He was away from other inmates. He was away from other inmates.

Sandra: So they put him in confinement since he killed Jeffery Dahmer.

Dana: Yeah.

Sandra: So now he can't be around any other inmates.

Dana: Nope.

Sandra: He'll spend the rest of his life confined.

Dana: Yeah. What do you think Sandra, if you kill somebody? Why do you have to be away from other inmates? You tell me why.

Sandra: Because you might kill another inmate. You could keep on killin'. If you had life in prison and you kill another inmate it wouldn't make a difference. 'Cause you're not gettin' out of jail anyway. Right?

Dana: Nope. [Dana begins talking about problems in a relationship with a woman and then records the radio for a while]

Marc: You were asking about what cannibalism is.

Dana: Yeah, what's cannibalism?

Marc: Cannibalism is when people eat other people... when they eat human flesh. So that's what Jeffery Dahmer did.

Dana: Yeah.

Marc: Because when they went to his apartment they found pots with body parts in them in his kitchen.

Dana: Yeah.

Sandra: You said pots of what?!

Marc: Pots with people in them - or parts of people.

John King: Oh my god.

Dana: They found Jeffery Dahmer's flesh in his apartment?

Marc: No, not his. Other people's that he killed.

Dana: Who was he living with... Jeffery Dahmer?

Marc: I think he had his own apartment.

Dana: Oh, okay. Thanks Marc. They found like buckets with other people's flesh in there?

Marc: Yeah.

Dana: Alright, what happened to Jeffery Dahmer, Marc?

Marc: Well he was sent to prison, right?

Dana: Yeah. And then he got killed by Christopher Scarver. Why did he kill him?

Marc: Maybe because he wanted attention? Maybe he wanted to be as famous as Jeffery Dahmer?

Dana: Yeah. What happened to Christopher Scarver now since he killed him?

Marc: I don't know. Maybe he had more years added onto his prison sentence.

Sandra: He had life.

Marc: Maybe he has double life now.

Sandra: [laughs]

John: Double life?!

Dana: Because if you kill another inmate, the prison should be on lockdown. What do you think Marc?

Marc: Well, normally if you injure another prisoner they might move you to segregation.

Dana: What does it mean "segregation"?

Marc: Sort of like "solitary confinement".

Dana: How long?

Marc: Well, it depends. They might move you there for the rest of your sentence, or maybe for a couple months. Or maybe a year.

Dana: [tells a personal side story relating his relationship problems to people in confinement].

Marc: Do you remember how he was murdered by Christopher Scarver?

Dana: Uh... knife. They used a knife.

Marc: How do you think he got a knife in prison?

Dana: Uh... he must have got it from one of the inmates.

Marc: Or maybe he made it himself?

Dana: Yeah. What do you think Marc?

Marc: I think he probably had to make it himself. Because you can't really have a knife in prison with permission right?

Dana: Yeah, and what happened to Christopher Scarver?

Marc: Well he was caught of course - someone saw him do it. So maybe he had more years added on to his prison sentence. What do you think?

Dana: Yeah.

Marc: What got you started thinking about this?

Dana: Because I heard that stuff on the radio.

Marc: Was it like an anniversary of when this happened or something?

Dana: Yeah they talked about it on the news. On TV.

Marc: Do you remember how many years ago that was?

Dana: Can you believe it was like eleven years ago? Jeffery Dahmer was in his 40's. What do you think Marc?

Marc: Was it eleven years ago that he was killed? No, that was eleven years ago that he was caught?

Dana: No, he was killed eleven years ago.

Marc: But when was he caught? In the late 1980's?

Dana: Yeah! '89.

Marc: Oh you remember. 1989. Okay.

Dana: He was caught in 1989. Jeffery Dahmer was killed in 1995 in December and was caught in 1985 eating those men and boys. That's why they found like buckets of flesh in his apartment. What do you think of cannibals?

Marc: Well, it's a really gross practice. And the only way you could eat a person is to steal their body or kill them.

Dana: Yeah.

Marc: So it's a pretty horrible thing to do.

Dana: What do you think of David Westerfield when he got the death penalty? What do you think... when he killed Danielle Van Damme.

Marc: I don't know who that is.

Dana: It's the person who killed little Danielle Van Damme. A little girl.

Marc: I don't know if I heard about that.

Dana: What do they do in Slovenia if you murder someone?

Marc: You might have to be in prison for the rest of your life but they wouldn't kill you.


- Dana Duer and Marc Fischer